http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-tech-performance/1633100-so-i-went-to-buy-oil-for-my-85-today-whats-zddp-2.html
By: Keith Ansell, Foreign Parts Positively, Inc.
About a year ago I read about the reduction of zinc dithiophosphate (ZDDP)
in the oils supplied with API approval that could affect sliding and high
pressure (EP) friction in our cars. The reduction of these chemicals in supplied
oil was based on the fact that zinc, manganese and/or phosphates reduce the
effectiveness and eventually damage catalytic converters and introduce minute
amounts of pollutants into our atmosphere.
A month or so ago I had a member of the Columbia Gorge MG Club bring a totally
failed camshaft and lifters back to me that had only 900 miles on them!! I
immediately contacted the camshaft re-grinder and asked how this could happen.
They were well aware of this problem as they were starting to have many failures
of this type. In the past, the lack of a molybdenum disulfide camshaft assembly
lubricant, at assembly, was about the only thing that could create this type of
problem. My customer has assembled many engines and had lubricated the camshaft
properly and followed correct break in procedures.
This got me on the phone to Delta Camshaft, one of our major suppliers. Then the
bad news came out: It’s today’s “modern” API (American Petroleum Industry)
approved oils that are killing our engines.
Next call: To another major camshaft supplier, both stock and performance
(Crane). They now have an additive for whatever oil you are using during
break-in so that the camshaft and lifters won’t fail in an unreasonably short
period of time. They also suggest using a diesel rated oil on flat tappet
engines.
Next call: To a racing oil manufacturer that we use for the race cars (Redline).
Their response: “We are well aware of the problem and we still use the correct
amounts of those additives in our products”. They continued to tell me they are
not producing API approved oils so they don’t have to test and comply. Their
oils were NOT the “new, improved and approved” ones that destroy flat tappet
engines! “We just build the best lubricants possible”. Sounds stupid, doesn’t
it, New-Approved but inferior products, but it seems to be true for our cars.
To top this off: Our representative from a major supplier of performance and
street engine parts (EPWI) stopped by to “warn us” of the problem of the NEW
oils on flat tappet engines. This was a call that the representative was making
only because of this problem to warn their engine builders! “The reduction of
the zinc, manganese and phosphates are causing very early destruction of cams
and followers”. They are recommending that, for now at least, there must be a
proper oil additive put in the first oil used on new engines, beyond the liberal
use of molydisulfide assembly lube. They have been told that the first oil is
the time the additives are needed but remain skeptical that the first change is
all that is necessary. Their statement: Use diesel rated oils such as Delo or
Rotella that are usually available at auto stores and gas stations.
This problem is BIG! American Engine Rebuilder's Association (AERA) Bulletin
#TB2333 directly addresses this problem. I had a short discussion with their
engineer and he agreed with all that I had been finding.
Next phone call was to a retired engineer from Clevite, a major bearing and
component manufacturer. First surprise was that he restored older British Motor
bikes. The second surprise was that he was “VERY” aware of this problem because
many of the old bikes had rectangular tappets that couldn’t rotate and are
having a very large problem with the new oils. He has written an article for the
British Bike community that verify all the “bad news” we have been finding.
Comp Cams put out “#225 Tech Bulletin: Flat Tappet Camshafts”. They have both an
assembly lube and an oil additive. The telling sentence in the bulletin was
“While this additive was originally developed specifically for break-in
protection, subsequent testing has proven the durability benefits of its long
term use. This special blend of additives promotes proper break-in and protects
against premature cam and lifter failure by replacing some of the beneficial
ingredients that the oil companies have been required to remove from the off
the–shelf oil”.
Next question: Now what do we do?
From the camshaft re-grinders (DeltaCam) “Use oils rated for diesel use”, Delo
(Standard Oil product) was named. About the same price as other quality
petroleum based oils. They are not API formulated and have the zinc
dithiophosphate we need in weights we are familiar with.
From the camshaft manufacturer (Crane): “use our additive” for at least the
first 500 miles.
From General Motors (Chevrolet): add EOS, their oil fortifier, to your oil, it’s
only about $12.00 for each oil change for an 8 ounce can (This problem seems to
be something GM has known about for some time!).
From Redline Oil: Use our street formulated synthetics. They have what we need!
From our major oil distributor: Distributing Castro, Redline, Va**oline and
Industrial oils: “After over a week of contacts we have verified that the major
oil companies are aware of the problem”. “The representatives of the oil
companies today are only aware of marketing programs and have no knowledge of
formulation”. The only major oil companies they were aware of for doing anything
to address this are Va**oline that is offering an “Off Road 20W-50” and Redline.
From Castrol: We are beginning to see a pattern emerging on older cars. It may
be advantageous to use a non-approved lubricant, such as oils that are Diesel
rated, 4 Cycle Motorcycle oils and other specified diesel oils.
Last question: So what are we at Foreign Parts Positively going to do? After
much research we are switching to Redline Street rated oils and stocking the
Castrol products that are diesel rated. Castrol, owned by British Petroleum, is
now just a brand name. This is a difficult decision as we have been a dealer and
great believer in all Castrol Products for over 40 years. We have been using
Castrol Syntech oil in new engines for about 3 years so the cost difference in
changing to Redline is minimal. The actual cost in operation is also less as the
additive package in Redline makes a 1-year or up to 18,000 mile change
recommended! Yes, it is a long change interval but with lowered sulfur levels
and the elimination of lead and many other chemicals in the fuels there are less
contaminants in our oil from the fuel, which is the major contributor to oil
degradation. We will continue to offer the Castrol products but will now only
stock the suggested diesel oils that they produce.
Too many things are starting to show up on this subject and it has cost us money
and time. Be aware that “New and Improved”, or even products we have been using
for many years, are destroying our cars as it isn’t the same stuff we were
getting even a year ago.
For the cars that use “engine oil” in their gearboxes this may even pose a
problem as these additives that have been removed could be very critical in gear
wear. We will be using oil specifically formulated for Manual Gearboxes with
Brass Synchronizers. The only oils we are aware of that fit the criteria are
from General Motors and Redline.
Note from Scott.
Oil blends change routinely. I think that the latest blends of diesel oils are
required to be as cat friendly as oils for gasoline passenger cars. Therefore
diesel oils are no slam dunk. If you wanted to use a diesel oil you would have
to research it’s composition as carefully as any other.